Ruby City Mods (
rubycitymods) wrote in
rubycity_ooc2013-04-30 08:24 pm
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Mod Announcement
Hi there folks!
We'd like to come to you with a proposal to make a change in the activity check guidelines. Don't panic! This is by no means something that will happen, only what might happen if it's met with general approval by the game's players.
Up until now, the activity checks have required either a thread of fifteen comments total, or a log/post with fifteen comments total within it.
Double activity has either been one thread of thirty comments, two threads with fifteen comments, a log/post with thirty comments, or two logs/posts with fifteen comments.
What we are proposing is as follows:
1. Two posts/logs with at least one comment
2. One post/log with at least one comment plus a thread of ten (10) comments total
3. Two threads with fifteen (15) comments overall [To clarify, this is fifteen comments total, we're not going to suddenly ask for thirty!]
Double activity would then be:
As stated previously, this is not a certain change, and we're bringing this to you before we consider implementing it so that we can answer your questions, hear your concerns, and if it's shown that this isn't going to work, the proposal won't go any further and the activity check guidelines will remain as they are! If there's a good amount of discussion both ways, the decision may be put to a poll, which will be posted using one of the moderator's paid accounts.
Please keep all discussion in this post polite, and if you have a question which you think we may not see, please indicate in the subject line of your comment! Anon is enabled so that everyone feels free to say what's on their mind, but be aware that if this is abused we will withdraw anon commenting.
Thank you for your attention!
The RC Mods.
We'd like to come to you with a proposal to make a change in the activity check guidelines. Don't panic! This is by no means something that will happen, only what might happen if it's met with general approval by the game's players.
Up until now, the activity checks have required either a thread of fifteen comments total, or a log/post with fifteen comments total within it.
Double activity has either been one thread of thirty comments, two threads with fifteen comments, a log/post with thirty comments, or two logs/posts with fifteen comments.
What we are proposing is as follows:
1. Two posts/logs with at least one comment
2. One post/log with at least one comment plus a thread of ten (10) comments total
3. Two threads with fifteen (15) comments overall [To clarify, this is fifteen comments total, we're not going to suddenly ask for thirty!]
Double activity would then be:
1. Three posts/logs with at least one comment
2. Two posts/logs with at least one comment plus a thread of ten (10) comments total OR one post/log with two threads of at least fifteen (15) comments overall.
3. Twenty five (25) comments total spread over two to four threads.
2. Two posts/logs with at least one comment plus a thread of ten (10) comments total OR one post/log with two threads of at least fifteen (15) comments overall.
3. Twenty five (25) comments total spread over two to four threads.
As stated previously, this is not a certain change, and we're bringing this to you before we consider implementing it so that we can answer your questions, hear your concerns, and if it's shown that this isn't going to work, the proposal won't go any further and the activity check guidelines will remain as they are! If there's a good amount of discussion both ways, the decision may be put to a poll, which will be posted using one of the moderator's paid accounts.
Please keep all discussion in this post polite, and if you have a question which you think we may not see, please indicate in the subject line of your comment! Anon is enabled so that everyone feels free to say what's on their mind, but be aware that if this is abused we will withdraw anon commenting.
Thank you for your attention!
The RC Mods.
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So, not a big deal, and I'll definitely stick around either way, but I'd prefer the existing guidelines.
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Just to clarify, I'm assuming that all of the comment counts are still the total number of comments between both/all characters involved in the thread, not just the character belonging to the player in question?
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As of recently, the game has broken circa 150 characters, and that would be one more piece of activity required out of all of them. If a person, for example, has been around for some time, and has a number of characters in the game adequate to their own roleplaying ability/speed and their free time, due to the game's slow, easily paced environment, they will suddenly be faced with a situation that's quite pressing. It could be hard to bump up activity on all their characters, due to either time restraints or just being used to a game with more lenient AC.
In my opinion, this would force quite some people with multiple characters, or even any other players, since all of us are affected by these changes, to have to rethink the amount of characters they desire to keep in the game, if they're not able to adjust to the new activity check due to whatever restraints they may have that were the first reason they apped to a more quiet, lenient game. New applicants that come from ATP that have been recently accepted/made reservations may have considered the game due to the fact it's laid back with AC while still having quite the number of characters in which to have a good amount of CR with!
I understand the concern with people who are not active at all beyond the one sample they provide each month, even I have been guilty of that occasionally, but I believe the best way to handle that would not be to raise the activity check , and instead, perhaps, a monthly HMD in which their fellow players can politely criticize them on their inactivity/character sitting.
I do see, though, where the mods may be coming from. Increased AC generally should mean increased activity, or so one would think. Personally, I think it's quite the contrary, since the people who are well established in the game for quite some time, with their number of characters, will possibly have a hard time adjusting to the new check with the multitude of characters they may have. Another of the reasons the "easy", or so to say, AC, was/is excellent, is because if a player has multiple characters, and has not been feeling one of their voices very actively, it's easy to make activity check regardless, and leave the character a bit in the back burner while not forcing the mun to take a hiatus for the character.
I'm pretty sure I'm making close to no sense by now, but in the end I'd just like to conclude that, while in theory, the bigger AC seems to point toward a better game, it'd actually possibly force a lot of people that have been here precisely due to it being a slow game for quite a while to consider the characters they currently have in game.
Thanks for reading!
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The way AC has been set up thus far, a player can post a post and not respond to any of the tags at all and still technically pass AC. It can create an environment where people do not tag out and instead wait on people to come to them. Requiring at least part of AC to be a thread outside of one post is far beyond unreasonable, and is a fairly good deterrent to the above problem in my own experience.
I'm going to have to respectfully disagree with the use of a game HMD as a vehicle to get people to tag out more. I've only been here a short while, and the one or two HMDs I've seen have been absolutely barren of anything crit or otherwise -- if people even actually post to it. I highly doubt this is going to change simply because the mods do it on a more regular basis.
And finally, in my own personal opinion, if someone has so many characters in game that they can only manage 15 comments or one post a month per character in the game then they have too many characters, full stop. For someone who has two characters in game: that's the equivalent doing one tag a day, and AC is covered for the both of them even completely disregarding the option to make a post and make AC that way.
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I do agree that the way things are now, it's quite easy to just skeeve AC through with minimal effort and then idle out for a month once more, and requiring an additional thread beyond one's own post is an effective way to begin to counter that, but the issue might possibly still be that people will remain largely at the same level of activity, adding only a 15 comment thread with a close friend done in the nic of time to once again pass ac and return next month, though to be honest, the AC raise may be the only way to "filter" out, or so to say, the players that squeeze out AC at the last minutes. This is a problem that plagues all of DWRP, I think, and is the reason character sitters exist in every game, without exception. There's simply no right way to "filter" them out completely, not that I'm saying the behavior should be encouraged in the slightest.
Me saying that "having so many characters" that AC becomes hard to manage, though, doesn't infer directly to the amount, instead having to look at a case personally. Say a player played 3 characters prior to the update, and found it was the best amount that could fit in well with an already busy schedule with RL obligations, such as school, work, and such, and now finds that the game they applied to requiring one sample of AC now requires two, they might have to re-think how many characters they're able to keep around, considering how fickle a person's RP drive can be, and that this is supposed to be a more relaxed game in a hobby supposed to not be stress inducing, rather stress relieving, as hobbies tend to go.
I only mentioned the game HMD as a means of bringing up an issue with a player's conduct, since that's the point of it, in the end. Any other ideas would be nice to have, because personally I think that, despite only having been in the game for shortly over a year, raising AC would betray the easy going nature of the game slightly, and could possibly have more negative outcomes than positive, such as the game losing good players at that cost.
I apologize if I'm being repetitive in regards to my other post or even within this very own, this came out larger than I first intended it to be.
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Personally, I would rather have people play less characters and have a lower character count in game with characters interacting more and developing more than having a bunch of characters who don't do much at all just taking up space.
This is especially important in the the example you give in regards to someone having a busy RL. If instead of apping 3 to 5 characters they stick to one or two, they are more able to devote more time to developing meaningful CR past "oh where the hell am i" "it's nice to meet you" "how does this work again?". More often than not most players first month of activity is their intro post, if they're simply going with the minimum required. If they're required to have more proof of AC, they are then encouraged to explore the character more rather than having them step off the train and then be forgotten for a month.
So yes, it probably would cause people to rethink who they're playing in the game and who they really want to keep. I'm not denying that, I am in fact saying that may well be a good thing. There's no point in playing six million characters if you're not really playing them. If someone is actually playing a character beyond the point of the current absolute minimum, I do not think that this change in AC is going to affect them at all.
Also, regarding the HMD. They are a good tool, but unfortunately the game wide HMD at Ruby City is not formatted well for it to be effective. In my opinion, in order for it to be effective several things would need to happen. A) It would need to be monthly, B) it would need to be mandatory in regards to participation for players and mod crit alike, and C) anonymous comments would need to be turned on.
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It also holds true that not a very large amount of relentless dedication is needed to make some excellent cr in the game without being extraordinarily active or sacrificing characters! Personally, I'm a bit of a slow RPer, with a mildly busy RL, but between that and the four characters I have in game it has never stopped me from finding some very engaging cr for all of them, as well as personal character development.
Really, the biggest problem with the AC rise would be how it affects players who enjoy their CR and their development at a pace fit to the AC to which they originally subscribed to by applying, since playing at a slower pace doesn't exactly mean that a character is devoid of everything beyond "what am i doing here/how did i get here/where am i" etc etc, and I think that's how most established players feel.
For example, if I suddenly came across something in my RL that would hinder my playing ability and put me at a slower pace, I'd be able to keep up should the AC maintain itself, but were it to rise, I'd hate to feel like I'd have to drop someone to keep up with the game, which is intended to be slow paced to begin with.
The thing is though, the rise of AC in order to bolster activity and CR is sort of odd, in my opinion. If people are in this hobby, it should be because they enjoy writing actively with other people and developing their characters within the setting on their own volition, which is why they wrote an app for the character in the first place. Having to force people to do what they signed up voluntarily to do in the first place seems sort of weird, personally, since the only reason the people who would post and let their characters be forgotten for a month would get more cr/development would be because they're being forced to, and not out of their own will as it should be in the first place.
Of course, logic implies that these people shouldn't be playing in the first place, but that's also a core issue with character sitters, because there's no way to push them out of the game except with methods that affect the entire game such as raising AC, which, I think, would certainly reduce their population, but at what cost? I feel like the possible loss of good players isn't worth the disposal of people who are just sitting there waiting for ac to come and fumble around for five minutes before scraping something up to pass. It's certainly true they're an unwelcome presence, but in the end their existence is really only consequential should people want to play said character/want CR with said character, which, actually, is quite a common thing if the character in question is well known.
I don't know what much else to add, except that I see both sides of the ordeal, and don't really personally want to see AC being raised in an otherwise slow and relaxed game for the sake of giving a push to not very active people who don't do much all month until it's activity check time, not when many of the players play here because it's simply that, it's relaxed and chill, so they can just play in a relaxed form without much stress, (while it is true that the new activity is not out of this world, but I approached that in a previous response) and that it'd be not so nice if regular players were affected by the rise not as a motivator, but more as a necessity that previously came much in a much easier and accessible manner fit of a slow game such as Ruby City.
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However I will continue to disagree that increasing it would be a detriment to the game. It would certainly change things -- but Ruby City is not exactly the small slow paced game that it was a year+ ago. It has grown quite a bit larger, and sometimes, like with the way applications have been changed, things need to adjust in order to fit growing pains. It's certainly not a fast or even upper middle paced game, but it's definitely growing and speeding up even on its own.
The applications and activity have already changed once in the past. Originally the game required only samples in order to be approved and had no activity check at all. This was changed once the game had established itself and it was shown that character squatting was an abundant problem. In order to resolve some of these issues the moderators at the time (one of which happened to be me) implemented these changes with the best of the whole in mind. At the time we didn't poll the group, and while that was not the best choice in the end the decision helped the game grow more from its starting point. In this instance at least, if the moderators decide to put forth the idea of an AC change, they plan on polling the populace, as I stated before.
In the case of your example:
I would like to think that in a case like that should you talk to the moderators something could be worked out for you, or anyone else who was having a problem. This is why communicating with moderators is essential no matter what happens to be going on at a game.
I'm not sure why you're so certain so many people will wind up dropping the game over a small increase like this, as it's coming across that you think people will drop off like flies.I also continue to be confused how this particular level activity change is one that suddenly makes the game unrelaxed and stressful. I can see how that would be an argument had the moderators brought forth the suggestion that the AC be 30 comments+ or 3 posts or even more than that. But if you read the AC proposed one of the options is pretty much the same as what we have now, except it's stipulated that the activity be spread out over two threads rather than just one.
That there is the option I'm talking about specifically. Once again this is less than half a tag a day a month, even with three 4 characters you're essentially required to do two tags a day, but with the requirement that it's over more than just one thread. People who are truly busy could take this option for AC and still manage to pass with the same number of comments they currently do while spreading out their AC at the same time. To me, this implies that the moderators are more concerned about players tagging out than they are with bolstering the number of tags they put out in total. I do not see this as a particular added stress to the players who are looking for a slower pace as it's essentially the same pace, just required that it is spread out a little bit more.
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It really does sort of invalidate most of my concerns, so this AC system does sound like a good change, especially considering it promotes multiple threads instead of one long one, even if it isn't absolutely perfect!
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It's not that much more per character to do, so for even a game with a slower speed reputation I think it's quite doable.
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Plus, with the other option of two threads or logs with a single comment, it drives for the creation of more plots, more posts, making meeting ac standards easier and the development of cr hitting new levels, giving Ruby City a new push.
Overall, seems like a good change. It's still pretty relaxed, while also inspiring more player activity. Pretty good!
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In general, I'm not opposed to requiring 2 instances of activity. I can see where it might help prod people into tagging around more. And in all honesty, my greatest trouble with AC here has been having several threads, none of which reached the required 15 comments. I know I can't be the only one who's gotten 2-3 threads to 10-12 comments only to have them die. And that is frustrating as all hell.
But I also like things the way they are. It's not really any more lax (in fact, I think it's more difficult than the proposed changes) but it is simple. Which is a big plus for me. There aren't a lot of combinations and choices, and that is what makes it the better option for me, personally.
My other major concern with the proposed activity is its non-uniform-ness. Sorry, I can't think of a proper word just at this moment.
I think while it might promote tagging around/posting more often, it might not help promote quality cr building. I mean, theoretically, you could make two short posts, make one comment on each and be set without anything really going anywhere. I guess I just feel like it could create more content, but also generate more laziness. Particularly if it's a problem with people barely scraping by on AC.
As someone who survives primarily by tagging around rather than posting, it strikes me as very unbalanced. Sort of like asking people who post for 4 tags while asking people who tag for twice that. I just feel, personally, that there should be a little more uniformity there instead of posts basically being weighted 3x higher than comments.
I understand that the idea is probably that posts are generally longer than tags, but that definitely isn't always the case. And for that reason, if the important factor here is having the activity spread out, I'd be more in favor of weighting the posts themselves as tags and keeping the standard 15 comments across 2 posts.
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To me, it sounds a little like it would do very little to prevent thread-dropping - I don't have to finish the threads on my post, I don't have to finish a thread once I reach the minimum amount of tags, which is not the way things ought to be in RP. And I say that as someone who is very guilty of thread-dropping.
In the same vein, the game has a couple very dedicated backtaggers, who also do not benefit in the slightest from the changes, as finished threads from the previous month don't count, either.
TL;DR: the changes are all the same to me, I could do nicely with the old version, I'd do just as nicely with the new one. There might be issues, but issues will be there either way, because there are always issues with AC.
HOWEVER, what I'd be proposing is a sort of... reward system for doing your activity, finishing threads (both current and backtagged ones), logging/posting, building CR, tagging new people, etc. Some games, like KoL, already have such a thing. Threads/posts get a point-value, and a certain number of points gets you stuff. Now, we're not a plot heavy game, so plot-participation would probably not be on our list, but hear me out.
What we do have are characters that open their own shops, miss things from home, need certain things to fully use their powers - why not tie receiving some of these to activity? One of the great things about RC is the ease with which you can add new locations/options to the setting, but why not tie some of it to activity? This could motivate people to tag out more, finish their threads, post more... All while AC stays as low as it is, so for those who don't have the time/drive to put up with all of this tag-work, nothing changes, while those who always do a lot more than required actually get more out of it.
The big problem with that one would be that... we have like 150 characters and I wouldn't want a mod to have to keep track of all that. I wouldn't want to be the one to do it, either. My suggestion would be that players keep track of their points in their character's journal. THAT would be entirely optional, though - so those who are like "no, my character doesn't need stuff from home/new things/a horse" can opt out, while those who have characters that would kill to get their apple tree back
/shotcould ... you know... keep track. Of their activity and stuff. That sentence got away from me.There could still be 'trinket from home giveaway events' like on Christmas and the likes, but... idk, I think this could make people do more quality things instead of just realizing they're one thread short to make AC and just tagging someone until the bare minimum is hit.
There'd need to be a set list of point-values for things (and some might have to be negotiated with the mods, due to special cases), but... yeah. THOUGHTS?
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WE'LL SEE. Will get back to you on this eventually.
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... Thinking on it, there could also be certain 'events' were there's a limited number of rare items 'on sale'. Additional powers (temporary or not), potions that have a certain effect, stuff like that.
... I am thinking way too much about this for no apparent reason, sorry for spamming you.
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Regina why do you need a flying monkey.That could be really cool, and it would definitely make for some interesting CR if we did something like that.
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idk i thought this could be hilarious
mostly she ought to have a horse and an apple tree
:3 I am glad you think so.
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MAKE IT HAPPEN.
...oh now I'm just thinking about her putting someone under a sleeping curse. ABBY, THIS IS NOT RELEVANT TO AC.
But yeah. You have gr8 ideas I approve.
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... Abby.
Give me a victim and she'll give you the curse.
ffff i♥u
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What if Grace though.
Yes I am horrible.
♥♥♥♥
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you are perfect.
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LACK OFlove will find a way.no subject
+1
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Or, as is now, there'll be events to gain things from.
/blarghs forever
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That way, the mods have less hassle, and players who don't need points for certain characters don't need to bother with it on a set time frame, or even at all if they choose.
It's a system I kind of like, now that I've gotten used to it.
EDIT: because I thought of more to say..
This is not so much related to AC requirements as it is activity in general. But should the mods decide giving incentives for activity is a good idea, something else that game does to encourage activity is randomly assigned partner threads. Basically, anyone who chooses can sign up, they are then randomly paired and can pick two of their pups to log together within a set time (say 1 AC period) for double points. Not that it would necessarily have to be points, but an extra reward of sorts. It can be an interesting way of getting fresh cr/meeting other players, particularly if you tend to isolate yourself like I do. Sometimes it works out, other times it doesn't, but it can open up new doors to explore.
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Personally, I wouldn't want to tie plots to it, as this often seems a bit off-putting to new players, but that largely depends on the game in question, anyway.
AND OH, the partner-thing sounds pretty awesome, actually. As you said, extra points or not, it could come really in-handy for getting fresh CR (especially if your character isn't normally the outgoing sort...). Now I want this.
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The point system itself, though, is useful. And because it gives us access to things we want, it's great incentive to be more active.
When it works out, it's definitely a great way to generate new cr and keep things from getting stale.
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Yep, this. And it could cause in-game things, too. Like, 'why does x character get this?', that kind of stuff. Which could lead to interesting CR.
And hey, even when the one thread doesn't work out - it's just one thread, not an entire plot.
(Also, YAY for someone who plays on IJ. I only played there for a short while, but it was fun and the people were nice.)
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Yes, I like it.
And yeah, as you said, when it doesn't work out, it's just one bad thread. Often one which isn't especially significant to character development.
I've been playing at IJ for just over a year now, I think. I play at
IJRP like an entirely different culture from DWRP. I was so confused the first couple of months.
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Ah, my best friend plays exclusively on IJ, but mostly on the OC-side of it.
And yes, I was so confused when I played there for a bit. I'm not sure whether it's as odd with canon characters (though the lingo is probably still confusing), but... the entirely different way of OOC interaction and everything plot related was so weird at first.
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It's harder to find canon-friendly games over there. And yes! So weird. Sometimes I'm still, "What is this business? Why is this okay??" Just a very different dynamic.
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Everyone on my timeline talks about how they need to code threadtrackers, or hate taking care of threadtracking posts, yatta ya. But here's the thing.
Dreamwidth already provides you with a threadtracker that requires minimum maintenance: memories. If you really wanted to code a tracking post, kudos, but using the memories function would make your work easier regardless of whether you do or not. All you have to do is create a category for Ruby City (or more, depending on how you want to organize them) and then heart the post. Keeps everything nice and in order of when it was posted/when you tagged it, instead of having to remember specific dates or dig through your character tags.
It'd make point keeping a lot easier, on top of having a handy-dandy go-to for when you need to find activity for your activity checks.
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IN OTHER WORDS, you absolutely have a point there, because this would be a real timesaver. It looks neat, it doesn't require coding skills (and doesn't need to be altered to begin with), and as you said, it'd even be handy for normal AC.
So basically, you win this thread.
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I don't feel that the new AC would require much more activity than people are already getting. I used to worry about not getting enough AC with Katherine because of AC requirements at other games, but I find that in RC people seem to like tagging around and accumulating 10-15 comments as stated would not be difficult at all.
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Most points pro and con I might have mentioned have already been brought up more eloquently, however, there's one more thing I'd like to bring up.
With the option of two posts/logs with one comment each, it seems to me like there's a chance of getting more posts without necessarily getting more interaction. I dunno about encouraging the number of posts... It's not so much that we have too few posts in the game, there are always plenty of recent posts to tag. The problem's more that posts go unnoticed, especially when there is a sudden influx of posts. It's not a big issue at RC, but I feel like it's something to keep an eye on if the new AC system is implemented. People won't have more time to tag out, so with the comments spread out across a greater number of posts more posts than now might go ignored.